[00:00:00] Leah Sarna: Welcome to Getting Free. This is episode 1. Before we start, just a warning that over the course of this podcast, we’ll be talking about domestic abuse and domestic violence. Please listen with care.

This is Julia…

[00:00:18] Julia: I grew up on Long Island in New York. I left when I was 18 and never went back.

[00:00:25] Leah Sarna: It was the late 60s, and she was at George Washington University.

[00:00:29] Julia: So in the midst of the Vietnam War and Watergate and all that. I was a journalism major in Washington, DC. It was an amazing time.

[00:00:42] Leah Sarna: Julia joined in on campus protests. She knew how to stage a sit-in, and was not afraid of pepper spray.

[00:00:49] Julia: I don’t think we had a heck of an idea what we were doing. You know? We just kind of joined the crowd. we did everything very peacefully and.

We got some things changed. It was very exhilarating. 

So for, to become, to go from that, to become, erased was really weird.

[00:01:09] Leah Sarna: The erasing didn’t happen until years later. Julia, which is not her real name, had been divorced for years. Her kids were grown up.

[00:01:18] Julia: And I was fine. I’m very independent. I’ve traveled a lot by myself. I had grandchildren.

[00:01:26] Leah Sarna: But one day, she ran into a friend of hers, the wife of a rabbi.

[00:01:30] Julia: She said to me, you know, I know somebody for you. Are you interested in dating? And I said, well, I’ll meet him.

[00:01:39] Leah Sarna: So, they went on a date…

[00:01:41] Julia: my first meeting was like, oh my gosh, I have won the lottery. This guy is amazing. He’s what I’ve been looking for all these years.

He was energetic. He was fun. He seemed to be a renaissance man, so accepting of everything, and it seemed like, wow, this could be it.

I should have known- if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

[00:02:17] Leah Sarna: His charming ways faded fast after they got married.

[00:02:20] Julia: There was, really no intimacy, no compassion. Something happened in my family and I stood in front of him and I said, I really need a hug. And I actually took his arms and put them around me, and he stood there like a board and wouldn’t hug me.

For all those years I had traveled by myself. And then it was, you can’t do that. You’re a married woman now. You can’t do that. You’re a married woman now. And I was like, what do you mean I can’t do that? I’ve been doing this for my entire life.

[00:02:59] Leah Sarna: She noticed that he was lying to her– about his health, how religious he was. Even what he was doing during the day. He often bragged about all his volunteer work. But one day..

[00:03:14] Julia: I had forgot my computer cord. So I ran home for lunch and he was sitting on the couch watching tv and I just looked at him and I said, I thought you were volunteering today. And he just gave me a look like, who are you to doubt me?

[00:03:29] Leah Sarna: It got worse. He started to have large, emotional outbursts.

[00:03:35] Julia: The first time that it happened, we had, guests for shabbas dinner. It was a normal conversation. I had forgotten to call somebody to clean the house. And I said, really? Is it the end of the month already? I said, oh my gosh, let me check my calendar. then the guest left and he stood up and looked at me and started screaming at me I can’t believe you said that. That embarrassed me.

[00:04:03] Leah Sarna: This happened more and more…

[00:04:05] Julia: He wouldn’t get violent, physically violent, but his tone of voice was quite menacing to me.

I stopped going to synagogue because I never knew when I was gonna do something or say something that would be embarrassing. I started getting very small, and it was like, wait. I was like, this isn’t me. This just isn’t me. I can’t live like this.

[00:04:35] Leah Sarna: Julia finally decided to leave the marriage. It was near the end of the lease on the house they shared, and her husband was out of town for a few days. So, she started packing up her things.

[00:04:46] Julia: While I was moving out, even though I told him I was gonna start moving out,

He started sending texts that were a little threatening. And my friend said to me, how did he know you were moving out on, you know, at exactly that time. I said, I don’t know.

 And she said, is there a camera somewhere in the house? I said, what? Is there a camera somewhere in the house?

[00:05:18] Leah Sarna: Julia’s boss came with her to the house.  They discovered a hidden camera she hadn’t noticed before… Her husband had been spying on her.

[00:05:28] Julia: And once that was made known to me, I don’t think I stopped shaking. For two weeks. Just the violation.

[00:05:42] Leah Sarna: Her husband kept harassing her. There were threatening texts, things in the mail….

[00:05:49]  Julia: When I went back with my, with my boss and his wife to, to pick up a couple of things

as I started walking towards the building, I started shaking and they just put their arms around me. That’s not how we always feel about our bosses, but they were amazing. And he just kept saying to me, you’re safe. It’s okay. You’re safe.

I didn’t realize how unsafe I was feeling on a daily basis

[00:06:23]  Leah Sarna: She called the police.

[00:06:24]  Julia: And they said, if he gets in touch with you again, let us know. We’ll intervene. And I sent him a text saying that I had spoken to the police. And they were ready to get involved, and I never heard from him again.

[00:06:46]  Leah Sarna: In most stories about domestic abuse, this is where the story would end, and it would sound like a victory- Julia escaped a bad situation, and her husband disappeared.

But for Julia, and many Jewish women like her, this was just the beginning.

She was still married, and no civil court in America could give her a divorce that would make her truly free.

In fact, she believed that the only person who could release her from her Jewish marriage was the person she never wanted to see again- her husband.

I’m Rabbanit Leah Sarna, and from the International Beit Din, this is Getting Free

[00:07:53] Leah Sarna:  I am the director of Public Education and Media for the International Beit Din, and we have helped hundreds of Jewish women in this situation.

I got into this work because this happened to one of my closest friends. We were roommates, I danced at her wedding, and then she faded out of my life. When she reappeared, she was in trouble – just like Julia. 

Over the next 6 episodes, you’re going to meet more of these women- women who used all of their strength to leave abusive marriages, and then faced one last impossible hurdle- getting their abusers to agree… to a Jewish divorce.

In Judaism, there is a religious document that makes divorce official. We call it a Gett.

[00:08:40]  Alla:  The gett is a Jewish divorce where you are now no longer a part of one unit.  if there was a Jewish Union, there should be a Jewish dissolution, just like if you got married, through the state, the state grants you a divorce. So the same thing, 

[00:08:54] Melissa: That allows me to get married again, if I want to in the future. And it allows me to be free from him.

[00:08:59]  Alla: The husband’s supposed to give it to the wife, It’s not an option. It’s, it’s a given. 

[00:09:06] Leah Sarna: We’ll talk more about the Gett process later, but here are the basics—

There are all different kinds of Jews, but many follow Jewish law called “Halakha.” When it comes to marriage, Halakha requires that Jews be divorced in a religious court, called a Beit Din. 

In these courts, the husband presents his wife with a document written in Aramaic by a specialized scribe. That document is called a Gett.

This ritual can be beautiful – it can give closure and help both people move on…but it can also be a perfect tool for abusers who want to control their wives, long after the relationship is over.

That’s because the man has to give the Gett to his wife. And if he doesn’t, they’re still technically married, according to Jewish tradition and the state of Israel.

So women can become trapped in dead marriages. Jewish tradition calls these women  “chained” or an Agunah.

And while they’re chained to their abusers, the control continues.

[00:10:17]  Amit: He says, of course I’m planning on giving the gett after the civil is done. But then to people in the community, like, no, I’m never gonna give the get.

[00:10:26] Alla:  My attorney tells his, there’s literally no money involved in this, just a piece of paper that the rabbi will give him to sign that now they’re not married anymore you know, religiously, he’s like, oh, absolutely not. 

[00:10:39] Melissa:  He said, I’ll give Melissa a get and move out of the house if you buy me a mortgage free home. 

[00:10:46] Julia: There was one rabbi who, called me and he said, okay, if you give him X amount of dollars, which was a very large sum of money, he will give you a gett and he won’t disclose things about you. And I said, what’s he gonna disclose about me? He goes, I don’t know.

[00:11:07] Leah Sarna: Of course, women could theoretically just ignore the Gett. Once they have their civil divorce, they could remarry someone who doesn’t care about this tradition. Some do…

[00:11:16] Helen: if you don’t give me a get, I’m gonna remarry a non Jew. Like, if I can’t marry a Jew, I’ll marry a goy. You want your kid to grow up in a house with a Christmas tree? Fine. That’s on you.

[00:11:27] Leah Sarna: But for many devout Jews, that’s not an option they’d ever consider. It would be compromising their faith. Plus, they’d lose their religious community. 

And then there’s the nagging feeling that comes from technically being married to someone who abused you.

[00:11:45] Helen: There’s something in me that I still wanted a gett because it was just, I didn’t want him to feel that he had that power over me.

[00:11:54] Leah Sarna: This crisis, that leaves women trapped in their marriages, affects Jewish women all over the world, of all ages, and denominations. 

Sometimes this crisis gets misconstrued as only about Orthodox Jews, but that is not the case. At the International Beit Din 48% of the women who come to us for help aren’t Orthodox. Others are traditional, reform, conservative or even secular. 

Over the course of this show, you’ll hear stories from women who live in the United States, as they overcome abuse, and isolation, in order to get free. 

And along the way you’ll hear from the advocates who believe it doesn’t have to be this way.

[00:12:46] Leah Sarna: But let’s back up a bit. How does all of this start? Often, with a husband who seems like a good fit.

[00:12:52] Helen: We met at the Israeli Space Agency. I was working on 3D printing Mars habitats for a NASA centennial challenge, and he wanted to be an astronaut.

[00:13:02] Leah Sarna: That’s Helen. She says, when she met her husband he was…

[00:13:07] Helen: Really smart, really, really smart, kind, thoughtful. there was definitely an intellectual attraction there. I mean, we’re both pretty smart,

And then when he took me to his parents to meet his family, we realized that my family rented an apartment from his family 20 years ago, and that his childhood bedroom was my first bedroom when my family made Aliyah to Israel.

[00:13:32] Leah Sarna: It just seemed like the relationship was meant to be.

[00:13:34] Helen: We had a happy marriage at the beginning, you know, until we didn’t.

[00:13:39] Leah Sarna: Then there’s Melissa. She’d been living in Israel for 13 years when she met her husband.

[00:13:45] Melissa: So I already was very settled obviously. And I had like a really close friends, um. And a career. I was doing freelance, marketing, writing, for different startups. So I was doing well.

[00:13:57] Leah Sarna: She wasn’t really looking to meet someone, but one day she was bored. She opened her Tinder account and started swiping.

[00:14:05] Melissa: I just like was gonna look at it for a few minutes and then I saw him. I don’t know, there was something like he just, something about his smile, he just looked like he was like kind and a good person.

[00:14:15] Leah Sarna: They went on a date. And afterwards, she found herself wanting to see him again.

[00:14:20] Melissa: He wasn’t playing any games. I could tell that he was really into me right away. He seemed like a really good person with a big heart. I thought he would be a good husband and a good father and take care of us.

[00:14:36] Leah Sarna: Then again, some of the women have a bad feeling about their husbands from the beginning. Alla first met her husband during her second year of law school.

[00:14:47] Alla:  It’s the hardest year. There’s a saying, first year they scare you to death. Second year they work you to death.Third year they bore you to death. So I was in the work you to death time. And marriage was not on my mind. I was so busy. It was, it was just like I had no time for that.  

[00:15:02] Leah Sarna: But marriage was on her mother’s mind. She wanted to set her up with the son of her friend. 

[00:15:09] Alla:  So I just felt like I needed to appease her. 

[00:15:12] Leah Sarna: She agreed to see him. 

[00:15:13] Alla: I just remember meeting him and not having that much of an impression… We had nothing in common except the fact that our moms were trying to set us up essentially. And not to be rude about that, but he was a mechanic. So we didn’t have a lot intellectually in common. 

[00:15:31] Leah Sarna: But he was persistent, and charming…

[00:15:33]  Alla: The charisma was basically what was attractive about him. He seemed very easygoing. And he got along great with my family. I remember my parents were demolishing their kitchen ’cause they were gonna get a new kitchen put in. He came in, he helped my dad. He just felt like, um, he was an easy fit. 

[00:15:51] Leah Sarna: Amit had doubts about her husband too. She met him a few years after she decided to become more observant. 

[00:15:58] Amit  I went from wearing pants, and not observing Shabbat, not observing kosher to doing it all. Like wearing skirts to the floor, tights, you know, the whole nine yards. I cut off all my friends that were boys, and I really just took like a 180,

[00:16:21] Leah Sarna: She was 19, and home in the US after studying at seminary in Israel. That’s when she met her husband.

[00:16:28] Amit: He was 10 years older than me, he also didn’t grow up religious. He, I guess, was also newly religious at the time. And he was determined to get married.

[00:16:39] Leah Sarna: Amit wasn’t especially attracted to him.

[00:16:42] Amit: He didn’t necessarily strike me at the time as someone that I could see myself marrying or I could see myself spending the rest of my life with. But you know, the community would come to me and tell me like, oh, he’s a great guy.

He’s well established, he’ll take care of you. He’s very successful. That’s how they painted him to be.

[00:17:07] Leah Sarna: Amit felt like she was running out of time. So eventually, she gave in

[00:17:13] Amit: In the religious world, 19 is when you get married, 19, 20, and every year that goes by, it’s considered like you’re getting old. So you have that social pressure of getting married.

[00:17:25] Leah Sarna: But whether the marriages start with a bit of resignation or a lot of hope, red flags pop up. Sometimes, even before the wedding.

[00:17:36] Alla:  He was not flexible anymore. He was not kind. He was just very trying to torpedo to get his way for wedding things. And it was just feeling like, like who is this person? 

[00:17:47] Melissa: We went to visit this one wedding hall, it was like charming and like old fashioned and it was beautiful and it wasn’t so big and I really liked it.

But he was like, no, it’s too small. We can’t do that. It ended up being that everything that he said he wanted, I just ended up agreeing to because he would just wear you down. He like wore me down every time until I had felt like, okay, it’s just easier to avoid a fight.

[00:18:15] Leah Sarna: Helen started seeing the cracks after their daughter was born.

[00:18:19] Helen: I’m not a mental health professional, so I can’t make a diagnosis, but my best guess is that he became schizophrenic and he just became insane.

More aggressive at home, more verbal abuse, very cruel. And then, the first time he put his hands on me was when I left because I was like, I’m not putting up with this shit.

Like I’m young, I’m pretty, I’m educated, like I’m not staying in an abusive marriage, I can see where this is going!

[00:18:48] Leah Sarna: It’s a slower burn for some of the other women. Just more and more moments that don’t seem right.

[00:18:54] Amit: It was definitely gradual. You know, he would say, I’m gonna be home at a certain time, and he almost never showed up when he said he would show up. And eventually when we had children, when I needed him to show up, he almost never did.

He was like, sorry, I’m working. I’m sorry, I’m busy. I’m sorry. Something came up. And there was always excuses why he couldn’t show up, not just for the kids, but also, in our relationship.

[00:19:22] Alla: One night he just like threw a fit and just started screaming at me and accusing me of things. Just acting like a total monster. And I just remember thinking like, oh my God, I can’t believe I’m married to this. Like, what is happening here? And then the morning he claimed he didn’t remember any of that and that he drank too much. 

[00:19:42] Melissa: When I was pregnant the one thing basically that made me feel happy then, and the way I could relax is like doing puzzles. We didn’t have like any place really to do them, so I would do them on the floor.

I barely remember what he got mad at me about. But he got so mad and then he just destroyed the whole puzzle. that I had. Like I was almost done with it. I had worked so hard on it and like he just like destroyed all of it.

And I just thought that was so cruel. 

[00:20:13] Leah Sarna: Those small moments add up. The husbands make it harder for them to see their friends and family. The women get isolated. They start to doubt themselves and their intuition. They wonder, does this count as abuse? Or are we just having trouble in our marriage?

[00:20:30] Melissa: I remember one time I had called my brother-in-law who’s a psychologist, and I was talking to him about our fighting and everything and I was saying that he’s like two different people. And then he was trying to tell me like, they’re both him. It’s just different parts of him, but they’re, it’s both actually him, but. I don’t know. It didn’t get through to me enough. But if somebody would say like, that is abuse, you’re being abused, you need to leave, that would’ve helped a lot.

[00:21:03] Leah Sarna: So many of the women who come to the International Beit Din are experiencing something called coercive control. 

It’s a type of domestic abuse that turns on dominance and isolation. It’s often a slow increase of abuse, restricting what your partner can do, and putting them down. Some experts compare it to a lobster in a pot, slowly coming to a boil. Things get worse and worse.

Melissa remembers the day their daughter was born.

[00:21:36] Melissa: He was still smoking at the time, and he came back in from smoking and he stank of cigarettes.

[00:21:42] Leah Sarna: He wanted to hold the baby

[00:21:44] Melissa: I asked him to take off his sweatshirt so that he could hug her and she wouldn’t get the smell on him. And then he got so mad at me and he started hollering at me and saying.

He’s gonna take the baby away from me and I’ll never see her again.

[00:22:00] Leah Sarna: For Amit, her husband started cutting off access to their money.

[00:22:04] Amit: You know, it’s one thing to put a budget in place, but it wasn’t that. It was like all or nothing. I did not have a way to buy groceries. And I would sometimes be at like, the supermarket and my credit cards would be declined, and I was humiliated.

[00:22:21] Leah Sarna: Amit also felt like she wasn’t in charge of her own body. Her husband kept getting her pregnant.

[00:22:27] Amit: He was aspiring to be this rabbi that has 15 kids, because that’s, you know what religion and Judaism is all about, but how does a woman feel? You know, I’m carrying these babies. It was just an impossible environment to live in.

[00:22:42] Leah Sarna: Alla also got pregnant pretty soon after she got married. She’s learned that can be  another sign of an abusive relationship. 

[00:22:50] Alla:  They get you pregnant really fast because that’s kind of, they lock you in because where are you going pregnant? 

[00:22:56] Leah Sarna: She remembers the night her son was born.

 I had my son at 1:34 in the morning. I spent that night all alone. The call button for the nurse didn’t work, and I was so tired. 

 I just remember looking at him and talking to him and just making promises to him that I’m gonna protect him.

 And I couldn’t believe that God gave me this incredible gift that I was responsible for him. 

And I just felt so bad that he was brought into such chaos, dysfunction.

[00:23:33] Leah Sarna: Often, the women finally decide to leave when the rage and abuse turns to their children.

[00:23:39] Melissa: We were having dinner and he was yelling at me about who knows what, and swearing. And my daughter, she was, just crying and holding onto me and saying, mommy, mommy.

Because she was scared. And that’s when I decided, that’s it. I can’t let this be the example I set for my daughters and I can’t let them grow up with this. 

And I decided like right then that this time I am actually going to get a divorce. I didn’t need any more, debating about it.

[00:24:12] Amit: He was just like picking on my daughter, and saying things to her that were so hurtful and, she was crying hysterically and he sent her to her room and I said to him, “please don’t talk to her that way,” and he said, you go to your room too. And that was it. I was like, I need to get out.

[00:24:40] Alla:  COVID hits and we’re all stuck at home together. And he is extra bad. I can’t stop him from hitting our son. and not just hitting him, he would like chase him around the house. It was almost like a game to him. He wanted to do these beatings. Like I can’t explain it. 

[00:25:00] Alla:  I remember sitting with my baby in the rocking chair next to a window and just staring out and just pray to God to get us out. Like to give me an idea, a sign, hope of anything. I would just literally stare out the window. And I remember a couple of times my ex-husband would come and be like, you’re fucking loony. I’m sorry for cursing. Um, you look like a fucking loony. Um. What are you doing? You look depressed. Like, I was depressed. I was so hopeless. 

[00:25:21] Leah Sarna: So, they get out.

[00:25:23] Melissa: I told my parents and, we got a lawyer and I filed for divorce

[00:25:28] Alla: I remember telling my parents in the new year, I’m getting divorced. And they were both in shock.  I don’t think they fully understood, but at the same time, come on, I’m a full grown woman. You know, like, you should trust what I’m saying. But, um, but I just remember saying like I can’t– I don’t even care. Like I cannot do this anymore. 

[00:25:48] Leah Sarna: But this is just the beginning of their stories. No matter what they do in civil court, they’re still married- according to Jewish law. Before the women are free, they need a Gett.

 And it’s harder than they think….

[00:26:01] Melissa: I said no, he would never do that. He would never withhold the gett. I was just incredibly naive.

[00:26:06] Amit: When we separated I didn’t instantly ask for my get, because that wasn’t at the forefront. I was thinking of how am I putting food on the table? You know, taking care of my children, how am I just like getting by?

But eventually based off the behaviors that were surfacing, I’m like, wow. Like this kind of looks like he’s gonna be the type that’s not gonna give the gett.

[00:26:31] Julia: I said, well, you know, I need a gett, and, his answer was, I’ll think about it, which was a common answer for him. I’ll think about it

[00:26:40] Alla:  The rabbi called my ex’s attorney, and he explained to her and she goes, oh, that’s no big deal. I’ll have him sign. And that was it. She disappeared. She never answered again. 

[00:26:53] Leah Sarna: So what do you do? Your marriage is over, but your husband won’t let you out. You’re stuck. Do you walk away from your faith? That is on the next episode of Getting Free.

 

[00:27:19] You’ve been listening to Getting Free, a podcast from the International Beit Din.

If you or someone you know is being denied a gett, or facing extortion in the Jewish divorce process, reach out to the International Beit Din for Help. To learn more go to internationalbeitdin.org/gettingfree That’s International B E I T D I N dot org slash getting free

This episode was produced by Megan Hall and Nat Hardy

With sound design and mixing by Nat Hardy

Our theme song is “Yehei Rava” by Yoni Stokar

Additional music in this episode by BlueDot Sessions

This podcast is supported by Micah Philanthropies with Ann and Jeremy Pava as trustees and the Meyer G and Ellen Goodstein Koplow Foundation

I’m  Rabbanit Leah Sarna. We’ll be back next week.